Scottish Racism

There is plenty of anecdotal and actual evidence that anti-English racism exists in Scotland. If you disagree with this statement, or simply do not believe it, then you have no business here, and should move on. I write as someone who enjoys much of what Scotland has to offer and also as an SNP voter.

It is not as if we English who live in Scotland come here to play at it; the average length of stay is 18 years. It begs, the question, if racism in Scotland is so bad for us English, why do we stay? The answer is, it is where we come to live, want to live and want to be. You might as well tell us to move on, and then the racists have won.

I had a low level dispute with someone in Port Seton, which is less than seven miles from where I have lived for the past six years. I was sitting down to enjoy my fish supper, along with other people, on the quayside, when the woman and her daughter on the next seat began feeding the seagulls. They starting swooping and it looked as though I was going to lose my lunch or get it pooped on. So I said, “Do you mind not doing that?” and explained why. Now, you could argue that she should have ignored me, or just told me to feck off. But no, she said, and I quote, “We live here”.

18 years is also the length of time one paper reported as the period of residence of Lucy Newman. You may recall the name. She was beaten up in Aberdeen because she “sounded English”. This was all over the papers, prompting hundreds of comments – some along the lines of “never had problems” to “I left Scotland because of racism”. Appallingly they were split about 50/50, which means that 50% of those who responded had a problem - 50%! It is not an isolated incident.

Our obvious and defining difference is our accent, but of course, it does not make us English. Scots who have lived South of the Border also have experienced racism if they have picked up an English accent. But accent is the most immediate and problematic, unless you are unfortunate enough (some would say “stupid” enough, to wear English nationalist emblems, or fly the flag of St George, or indeed give yourself away.

On my first ever visit to Scotland I was quietly browsing in a “Tartan trash” shop on the Royal Mile and overheard two Scotsmen discussing trashing English holiday cottages, and how they were going to do it. I left without saying a word.

Many of us now find we are reluctant to open our mouths in public. I don’t mean among the educated classes, I mean in public, among the hoi-polloi and the shopkeepers and low level council officials.

I personally have lost count of the racist comments and behaviour, from out and out undisguised hate to bland misunderstandings.

The most regular, and mild, and yet most irritating is “Are you on holiday?” Sounds mild enough, but ask that of a black person or a third generation Pakistani and you are on very thin ice.

There is a kind of politeness up here which is in some ways refreshing, but it is very thin; there always seems to be latent racism lurking under the veneer of cordiality.

Recently I thought I had broken the barrier and made some Scottish friends. It turns out that all of them are either English born, or half English or married to an English person. My business dealings are about 90% with English people who live here. I did not choose this state of affairs; I have been deliberately snubbed, told blatant lies and ignored because I was English. These days, if I am in a bar with my one Scots friend, whose mother is English, I get him to order the drinks.


I think that what is most depressing is the apathy with which racism is viewed here, and by that I mean all racism. It is so bad, that people casually throw out one liners about "pakis" without batting an eyelid. None of the major parties, the SNP included, are touching this issue with a bargepole.

UPDATE1:
I have the pleasure of representing a few Scottish musicians. Except that when I try to get posters put up in shops that carry dozens of such things, I have been told "no". I have tried to book venues and been told "no", and yet when my Scottish friends have called the same venue, they have been told, "yes". Either that or they nod and agree to put the posters up and then don't. You see, they think I am doing something "English". The worst was a tartan shop, when in my polite enquiry as to whether the shopkeeper would put up a poster he told me that he did not do that. And yet, there was already one in the window for a local session, and a week later there were four!

Those who come on holiday for a week and think Scotland is wonderful, well it is, but like anywhere, they are happy to take your money and smile, but if something goes wrong, they don't want to know, which is more or less what tourists get the world over. The trouble is, I am not a tourist, I live here!

57 comments:

an ex-apprentice said...

Dear Mr WW,

I recall the attack on Lucy Newman of course and at the time I found the idea that she had been attacked simply because she was English appalling, but imagined it must have been an isolated incident.

I must admit I am shocked by your own experience and especially the fact that this is, apparently, a widespread and everyday phenomenon.

Why, for heavens sake?

The main reason I find your post so shocking is that for 26 years, I spent at least 3 weeks in Scotland every year without fail, from Perthshire up to Sutherland, walking, climbing and fishing. Scotland has always been, and remains, my favourite part of the UK. Not once, in all that time, did I encounter the attitudes you describe.

I suppose my own interaction with the locals was always as a customer, a client, rather than as someone perhaps regarded as an interloper.

Sad. Very sad.

strapworld said...

Living in Wales, I find that they use their dialect as the 'barrier, they will always allow welsh to jump queue's with the usual 'Oh I am sorry' if you point out that, actually,one has been waiting just half an hour to buy the paper!

It is the pandering of the welsh dialect, teaching it in schools, all signs in two languages,when one gets official papers you get it twice one in English and another in Welsh! The cost must be astronomical and is another example of the minority controllong the majority. BUT, devolution has created this. In the three devolved countries it has created hopes and desires that will end up in total disaster.

The English will have to let them go their separate ways. Let them experience life without the safety net of the English tax payer. I believe that will be the only way.

Just think. If we had allowed that earlier, we would not have a Scottish Mafia controlling us now!!

Wrinkled Weasle come on home!

Conan the Librarian™ said...

WW I'm sorry to hear about this, but you get arses everywhere...

...strapworld, apart from the nonsense that Scotland is susidised by the English, your arrogant condescension about an ancient language and the people who speak it may explain just why you are ignored in queues.

scunnert said...

I must admit to a visceral dislike for the stereotypical Englishman as personified by Strapworld.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

I was hoping you would comment WW,
as I am truly saddened by your post above.

The lady feeding the seagulls, may have been implying to you; This is what I do every day that you are not here...

We all hate tourists when they impinge on the smooth running of our lives; I've been late for work as a whole parcel of tourists each asked the bus driver the same fucking question, then fumbled the fucking money.

Fucking (insert nationality here)
bastards.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Actually, Conan, I like it here. A lot. When we leave I shall be sad. There is a quality of life in Scotland that you get nowhere else in the British Isles.

The SNP are going their own way. They have detached from the consensus.

This is good: if they carry on, Scotland will be a very strong independent country. It's just that I do not feel welcome. Can't help that. It's my experience.

Now wait for the flak!

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Flak!! I knew it! All your pic needs is a set of pilot's wings and a DFC ribbon.

And a decent handlebar moustache, no the wee pencil thing.

Well anyway, ye would be welcome anywhere I lay my hat WW.

subrosa said...

I shall try again. Where are my posts? Why do you refuse me a voice? Is it because I criticised your beloved England?

If you are ex RAF then you will be very aware how rife 'racist' remarks are within the services. It stems from the young airman to the General Officer Commanding (I omit the Navy but they should be mentioned). Nothing like listening to one Scottish lad being told at Sandhurst that he will make an excellent officer but a bluddy awful gentleman with an accent like that.

Great isn't it? And you get upset because someone asked if you were on holiday?

Unbelievable.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Dear Rosa

Sorry, but you must be barking.

None of your posts have been deleted. In fact there is no moderation on here whatsoever unless I consider it actually illegal.

Secondly, England can look after itself and I have been resolutely neutral about it, so I don't know where you get the idea that it is "beloved".

Thirdly, I have nothing to do with the armed forces, and never have. God knows how you came up with that one.

Fourthly, I get asked if I am on holiday, on average, once every two or three weeks and more if I am not in my local area. Having lived here for over five years, I said it was irritating. Just irritating. Nobody ever asked me that in England. It is low level racism - there is no other explanation. They simply do not accept that we English actually abide in Scotland.

If you cannot accept there is widespread racism in Scotland, which clearly there is, then you are part of the problem, so have your money back and go elsewhere.

subrosa said...

WW, you know well I have posted 3 times on this subject.

I am not aware of any more 'racism' in Scotland than elsewhere in the UK.

Can't you open your mind just a little more about the 'are you on holiday' issue. You've just said nobody has ever asked you in England. Could that be because they have no interest in you but only themselves?

I remember not so long ago an English friend mentioning, when he'd arrived here 15 years ago, he thought everyone too nosy for their own good. Now he says, he's so relieved that people here take an interest in others and keep a watchful eye. Their nosiness saved his life when he had a stroke in his garden.

I live in the east of Scotland and there is no tension here. Also I live with a very very Englishman who says he rather enjoys the banter between his Scottish and English golfing friends.

One man's meat is another man's poison and it doesn't matter in the least the nationality of the meat.

subrosa said...

WW, your picture reflects the image of an RAF person. Conan also remarked upon it so I'm no so barking. There is no need to be so rude.

Curbishlyauto said...

Why was there any need to comment on a picture? unless you were looking for a stereotype to reinforce your Scottish racism?

Conan the Librarian™ said...

I started the RAF comments as something called a "joke" Curbishlyauto.

Look it up in a nice English dictionary.

Cynnie said...

here in Puerto Rico , I get hung up on and ignored all the time because Im american ..
Once in a store the lady made me bag my own groceries ( this was a store that bagged your groceries so i wasnt just being an asshat)..she wouldnt talk to me ..even in spanish ..
she seemed insulted that i would even try to speak spanish ..
jerks are everywhere i suppose ..

hiya WW!!

subrosa said...

Cynnie and there are as many jerks in the whole of the UK as there are in Scotland. I doubt if calling the whole of Scotland racist will help with any underlying tensions between the two countries.

Of course it's usually the superior culture which does that because they're well aware the inferior one can't really criticise without seeming ungrateful for their 'kindness'.

I was going to post a response to this post on my own blog, but WW's examples are so light in comparison with the taunts I received for years in England, but I decided it was impossible to defend his level of 'racism' with any seriousness.

an ex-apprentice said...

So there you have it, WW, straight from the horses mouth. From Colon, Scumbag and Subrosy themselves, no less.

You're barking. Imagining things. Spreading vicious rumours with scurrilous intent. As only one of those filthy bastard Englishmen could do.

The chippiness, denial, and speed to take offence says it a really. Thin-skinned doesn't begin etc.

It would never occur to me to ask someone with a Scottish accent if they were on holiday. Or a Pakistani, or a Pole. And when was the last time someone was murdered in England simply because they were Scottish, and someone wasn't too keen on the accent?

What hasn't been addressed, amongst all the denial and gratuitous insult, is why?

Call me simple if you like, and you no doubt will, but I just don't understand the reason for these attitudes or the underlying insecurity.

Anonymous said...

I'm a Glaswegian who has lived in England for 20+ years.

I think that there are some huge differences in the 'national characters' of English and Scottish people. Your remark WW about being asked if you're on holiday I'd interpret as genuine, friendly enquiry and would expect the same question to be asked of someone of any other nationality. Stand in a Glasgow bus queue and the conversation would progress along the lines of "How long have you lived here?", "Do you like it?", "What brought you up here?" and so on. I can't imagine any English person engaging me in such a conversation (I put it down to English reserve, not wanting to be thought nosy, rather than complete lack of interest).

Having said that, there are Scots who are anti-English but, there again, I've been subjected to offensive remarks in England (and what I found most annoying was that the people didn't even realise that they were being offensive!)

My real ire, however, is reserved for those on the blogosphere - I've been genuinely shocked and rather hurt by the anti-Scot comments I've read and they tend to confirm my suspicion that the English, as a whole, sneer at Scotland.

I'd love to be wrong.

Jay

Jim Baxter said...

At the risk of being presumed to be English again by Subrosa (you might want to recalibrate your presumption-generator hen), I once again agree.

Yes, ignorant and spiteful people abound and their prevalence knows no boundaries, but ignorant and spiteful Scots seem uniquely predisposed to direct their spite against English people. I suppose they need somebody to blame for their own inadequacies and so blame Edward 1 and his subjects' successors. That there was an Edward is about the only history some of them know and they only learned that from that appalling, spiteful, dirge, 'Flower of Scotland'.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Ex-apprentice.
Please point out to me the the denial and the gratuitous insults please.

Apart from yours and strapworld's that is.

an ex-apprentice said...

Dear Mr Colon,

DENIAL:

"WW I'm sorry to hear about this, but you get arses everywhere..."

"The lady feeding the seagulls, may have been implying to you; This is what I do every day that you are not here..."

"We all hate tourists when they impinge on the smooth running of our lives; I've been late for work as a whole parcel of tourists each asked the bus driver the same fucking question, then fumbled the fucking money."

"Great isn't it? And you get upset because someone asked if you were on holiday?"

"Unbelievable."

"I am not aware of any more 'racism' in Scotland than elsewhere in the UK."

"Can't you open your mind just a little more about the 'are you on holiday' issue."

"You've just said nobody has ever asked you in England. Could that be because they have no interest in you but only themselves?"

I live in the east of Scotland and there is no tension here."

"I decided it was impossible to defend his level of 'racism' with any seriousness."

If you really need me to, Mr Colon, I'll come back later and guide you, slowly, through the insults. But only if you absolutely insist.

I would still be interested, if any of you can be bothered, or honest enough, to address the issue, to know WHY?

Cynnie said...

but there are cultural differences in people..my family is from the mountains of North Carolina in the USA..
mountain people are not the cheery southern people you see on tv..
they're suspicious and stick to their own..

I really have to work hard to be more gracious and inviting..
its not my nature
i'm going against centuries of family training :(

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Ex- apprentice, I absolutely insist.

Maybe we could keep score?

Conan the Librarian™ said...

"It is part of the nature of Englishmen to look upon all strangers as intruders, if not as enemies, and yet many a pleasant acquaintance and friendship I have formed without any formal introduction, being, I am happy to say, un-English enough not to be afraid of committing myself or losing caste by addressing a stranger. Throughout life I always find that civility is met with civility, wherever it is bestowed. At the same time nothing is easier than to put a stop to impertinence should one meet it."

From ex-apprentice's blog.

JuanKerr.com said...

Man this is sad. My inlaws are English and to be honest, They know more about the area they live in and the history than any "local"

Ex Aprentice, your just an arsehole using this debate as "jock knocking"

If we are so bad why do you want to hold onto us? Why do you want to rid our country of our natural and ancient language, why do you feel Scots are subservient?

I was in England 2 years ago and our group was over charged by some 50 pounds plus, when we highlighted this the person said"your Scotch you can afford it, youve got our money paying for it anyway", needlees to say that place is now closed. When I was 8 I was setupon by a group of 10 kids because of my accent should I hate all english folk? NO, As Cocoan says arseholes exist everywhere and youre a prime example of arrongant provincial arsehole as conan says.

Grow fucking up you tit.

scunnert said...

I concur with Juan re: EX - yer an arse.

JuanKerr.com said...

I would not go as far as too say 50% of scots are rascist, we get hupty at the fact some English treat us in a superior and colonial manner. I also agree, that Some Scots do have chips on shoulders and are outwardly hostile.
But if you look at history. And read it with fair and open mind. You will find we have been fiddled with in an agredious manner and at one point castigated as savages. Despite having some of the most ancient seats of learning in Europe at the time!

Pretty insulting and a fair chip can be made of it.

I would rather we parted on good terms and friendship. We just want autonomy four ourselves and mean no insult oor rejection. You, as a patriotic English man would of course like to celebrate your own specific culture and do whats right for your cultural, economic, and social health and priorities. Which are kinda different and seperate in a lot of instances on each side?

Wrinkled, Too show you goodwill. I have forwarded your details to a friend who has worked with some of Scotlands top acts a host of other quality new bands.

Best wishes

Dunfermline Music said...

Dunfermline loves music and doesnt care where it comes from :)or what accent you have :)
www.dunfermline-music-scene.co.uk as a matter of fact I have just booked an english rock band that are from Hull/London :)

Hamish said...

Dear WW,
This is the first time I have visited your blog (pointed in your direction by subrosa), though I have read some of your trenchant comments on other blogs.
You are correct that too many Scots are prone to prejudice -- of all kinds. It is one of our least endearing features.
From "I kent his faither", "who does he think he is" to "posh car, let's do the windows in", "not one of us, throw a brick at him".
I'm truly sorry that you have been the victim of such prejudice.

Pedantically, it's probably xenophobia rather than racism. In your case (correct me if I'm wrong), I would narrow it down to accent prejudice. It is still prejudice.

Subrosa is clearly alive to accent prejudice, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Hamish.

We all suffer from prejudice.

snuffer said...

Hi,

It is indeed sad that after 18 years in my mother country you still feel in some ways unwelcome.

I'm a Scot who left for London to work 4 years ago at the age of 31. Since then I've also worked in Peterborough and now the North-West.

By and large I have found the English folk I've met to be pleasant, good humoured and welcoming. There's always the odd Jock joke when you enter an established group for the first time but that doesn't bother me and when people get to know you on a less superficial level that stuff falls away.

But then, England is a country of immigrants, and the people I've mixed with - successful folk with jobs and lives and such - are used to immigrants, don't see them as a threat, and get on with them.

Scotland is by and large not a country of immigrants, at least if you go by accents. In Edinburgh up until a few years ago you could easily go a month without seeing a black face or speaking to an Englishman. I would say those with an English accent in Scotland are outnumbered by those with Indian or Pakistani accents.

So on that count the Scots are simply not used to you. On the next count, the Tories ruined our working class with the sweeping 80s mine closures and then singled out the country for the poll tax. And the Tories were only in power thanks to English voters. The resentment from this period can not be understated. The mine closures happened in England too but it was the English who voted for the perpetrators. This was a huge demonstration of the country's lack of self-determination and it's no surprise the nationalist movement has taken off in the way it has in the intervening years.

I'm no historian and I'm too young to remember much else but doubtless there are many other similar forces which have stirred up anti-English feeling.

This is not to excuse the behaviour of the short-sighted people who've treated you in a less than welcoming way. You are not Thatcher's government, and I would meet you and any other Englishman or indeed any person from wherever as a fellow human first and foremost. But I am fairly successful, intelligent and enlightened, whereas many are not, especially in the lovely but backward village of Port Seton, and it's possible to understand the negative attitudes of those who are not even if it's not possible to entirely forgive them.

What I really want to know: what has kept you, for 18 years, in a country where you feel unwelcome? Whatever it is, I hope it will keep you there long enough to experience the moment when the Scots start to drop their anti-English front.

Michael

Hamish said...

Michael:
"But I am fairly successful, intelligent and enlightened, whereas many are not, especially in the lovely but backward village of Port Seton".
Listen to yourself.

"Since then I've also worked in Peterborough and now the North-West."
Fort William?

snuffer said...

Hamish:

"Who does he think he is?"

Did ye ken ma faither 'n aw?

I like Port Seton, a lot, but it's not exactly a cosmopolitan hub.

Michael

an ex-apprentice said...

Dear Mr Colon, 11:58am

The quote you lifted came, as you know, from a book written 150 years ago, and was not used on my blog in any connection with this discussion.

To quote it here, and imply it is something I said, or as a representation of my view, is dishonest and petty.

I would expect nothing more of you.

As for the rest of the subrosy mutual appreciation society, the more you say, the more WW's observations are validated.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

Ex-Apprentice
Did I say it was written by you? Could you point out, slowly and carefully where I insulted you?

Thanks

an ex-apprentice said...

Colon,

Your intention was clear. Otherwise, why post it?

Moreover, you succeeded, didn't you? As the subsequent comments of JuanKerr et al made plain.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

You are avoiding my point, where did I insult you?

JuanKerr.com said...

"an ex-apprentice said...
Colon,

Your intention was clear. Otherwise, why post it?

Moreover, you succeeded, didn't you? As the subsequent comments of JuanKerr et al made plain."

You have been xenohpobicaly ignorant and behaved in an insulting maneer. You deserve no less. Do you see me abusing wrinkled weasel? He has at least been courteous even if we both disagree.

You however are using this fabrication as a sheild to avoid the question from conan and myself.

Pretty transparent stuff.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

I am grateful to all contributors to this thread.

Clearly it shows a broad range of opinion. Just to correct an error, I have only lived in Scotland for about five or six years (I forget).

I mentioned racism and how it has affected me. I hold that it is a problem in Scotland and Scotland must deal with it. What I did not mention is how optimistic I am about the future of this country as an independent nation.

I vote for the SNP for a number of reasons, but a positive one is their social agenda, which is inclusive and levelling, rather than divisive and based on envy and revenge as it is in England. I mean, for example the policy of free school meals, free eye tests, free prescriptions, free tolls on the bridges.

Scotland, (I nearly said "we" but that would be presumptuous) is ahead on some health issues, as it needs to be. Scotland is ahead on energy issues and is anti nuclear weapons. The SNP was the only party that stood up to New Labour over Iraq. There is a lot more to be legitimately pleased about.

Do not think for a moment that I have some sort of chip on my shoulder - quite the reverse - but the truth must out.

Thank you again for your comments. I have read them all.

JuanKerr, thank you for your interest in my musician.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

WW
As I pointed out on another thread this morning, you should get google ad on your blog as this may run and run.

Ex has descended into personal abuse on my blog, I invite everyone there to see the real persona. I really wanted to go to sleep now but I'm mildy annoyed at him.
Shall I go and post abuse on your blog ex? No, I shall not.

Wrinkled Weasel said...

It will be interesting to see how far it does run. I had no idea.

I still get my fish suppers in Port Seton. Being from generations of fishing folk myself, it feels like home some days. (Another reason to vote SNP, since they supported the Scottish fishing industry during the fuel crisis, when Westminster ignored them)

You will laugh, but over thirty years ago I studied under a very famous son of that place who was a total shit.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

WW this is the real ex, behind the fake veneer.

http://marasunamusings.blogspot.com/2009/02/abu-qatada-awarded-2500-compensation.html#comments

Dear Mr Browneyes,

As if it were not enough being mauled by Polish plumbers, now up pops one of the beetle-browed ginger mob, from the biggest council estate in England, with his skirt and his wee sockies and his can of Irn-Bru in one hand and his caber in the other, to say that he and his fellow drunken, crossdressing, wifebeating, larcenous, miscreant fellow tribesmen are not, after all, subsidised off the backs of decent hardworking Englishmen.

Just because we let you have your own pretend Parliament, in it's own wee wendy house, you Jocks should not go getting ideas above your station.

Especially not when your contribution to the Economy has been that manifest lunatic from Fife, Gordon the Ruiner; Badger Darling - the Chancellor who couldn't count his own fingers and get the same result twice in a row; HBOS and RBS - about to increase our national debt by 1.5 trillion, and many other obscenities that we really would have preferred you had kept, for your own private misery. These examples are by way of illustration, and should be regarded in any way as a comprehensive catalogue of the incompetence and misery you have so generously inflicted upon us.

Away now, laddie, yon porridge is getting cold.
*****
Not racist at all eh?

an ex-apprentice said...

Colon, you pathetic, muckraking, slandering, lying tosser - grow up!

That comment was, as you know, prompted by what I regarded as a chippy Scottish nationalist type remark from Mr Brownlie. Yes,I responded in annoyance and in a manner which was deliberately insulting. I, as you also know, subsequently apologised to Mr Brownlie on his own blog. He was a big enough man to accept the apology.

There is a world of difference, not that it would matter to you, between having a rant at somebody on the internet and the experiences WW described. Or, indeed, murdering someone because you didnae fancy their accent.

Nothing I have said on this thread or at subrosy's justified the prior allegations of racism made by you and your pals. And your earlier deliberate, despicable piece of cut and paste fraud marks you for what you are.

Unable to face your own deficiencies, or to conduct a discussion on merit, you resort to play the man not the ball.

Not one of the subrosy mutual appreciation society has admitted to the existence of any problem, far less attempted to answer the question I posed as to why such attitudes exist, which was the main reason I joined this thread.

I repeat what I said to subrosy; for the sake of my own love of Scotland, I pray to God you lot are not in any way representative.

Conan the Librarian™ said...

There we have it.
I have no way insulted anybody on this thread, merely repeated what this person put on his own blog and an other, but apparently I'M the pathetic, muckraking, slandering,lying tosser.

That's thirteen mild insults on this blog alone.

For the nasty one go to my blog.

JuanKerr.com said...

Wrinkled Weasel: "I vote for the SNP for a number of reasons, but a positive one is their social agenda, which is inclusive and levelling, rather than divisive and based on envy and revenge as it is in England. I mean, for example the policy of free school meals, free eye tests, free prescriptions, free tolls on the bridges.

Scotland, (I nearly said "we" but that would be presumptuous)"

I agree. I don't see this as a yabooh sucks affair. In these civilised and non medieval times whats to say we can't trade asand cooperate without it all going to hell and strife , but each must have their own autonomy too decide.


The way I see it, if you believe in independence and would like to be a part of a restored country. then it is perfectly acceptable to use , "we".

The bigger problem is the bigge r interests, the protectionists within the civil service and goverment, national security and fuel supply concerns at westminster.

It is up to the people of Scotland to remove all barriers to self determination and a right to choose what we want.

Over the past few years westminster has allready staarted ring fencing our oil. They have partitioned 6000 miles of north sea as Englands territory and built an oil terminal and pipe line in newcastle to bypass scottish refineries should strife come.

Waken up!If you live here your slowly being sold down the river.

The only question is. Do you want to be the instigator in your own fiscal ,social and vocal demise?

JuanKerr.com said...

wrinkled weasel : Oh and your very welcome. I hope you have much success.

Might even check out a gig. Like all sorts of tunes from northern soul to prog rock and thrash metal, very eclectic :-)

Wrinkled Weasel said...

Megadeth or Capercallie - depends what mood I am in.

D. said...

Mr Weasel,
I can very much relate to your post, living in Aberdeen (to attend the University) and being heckled on many occassions as me and my mates are English. Obviously there's plenty of pleasant Scots out there, but we tend to not even step out on the streets during the weekend evenings, because we expect abuse from the locals for our accents... despite some of us being half-Scottish or even living here for several years. When was the last time a Scot residing in Hull or Northampton was told to f*** off because of their accent?
One piece of advice however, to any English residing or visiting Scotland... don't publically celebrate and English win in any sport, especially if they've just beaten Scotland... it will result in a black-eye!

David Hume said...

Your whole case is based almost entirely on anecdote. Anecdote by it's very nature is unreliable in making general conclusions due to the difficulty of abstracting quantifiable data from it. For every anecdote you supply about how much the Scots hate the English I could supply you with anecdotes from English people living in Scotland who have never had any racism directed at them. (I work in an environment where I meet a lot of English people).

The Lucy Newman incident was an isolated incedent. You cannot make a hasty generalisation that Scots are racist based on one incident. Given that there are 400,000 Enlish people living in Scotland (around 8% of the population) if the Scots are as racist as you suggest then you would expect incidents like this on a weekly basis.

A better approach would be to look at the records of racially aggravated crime in Scotland and do some statistical analysis on it. In Aberdeen last year there were 429 aggravated crimes and only 25 of these was directed at English people. Given that the English are by far the biggest "minority" in Aberdeen (around 10% of the population), this would tend to suggest that the probability of English people being the victims of racially aggravated attack is extremely small.

Anonymous said...

Mr Sweaty sock: "I didn't do it jimmy!" Typical sweaties, can't own up to anything, unless it's boasting about themselves of course! More fool you lot, you'll pay for it in the end.

Why don't you make scotch one-eyed idiot Gordon Brown the scotch prime minister? He's the figurehead you lot deserve. He is sooooooooooo typically jockish after all, i.e. selfish, belligerant, arrogant, snidey and a fucking childish liar to boot.

As for "isolated incidents', you forgot about the disabled Englishman in scotland who was punched...whilst sitting in his wheelchair. How brave ah? You forgot about the SEVEN YEAR OLD kid in scotland who was punched because she had an England shirt on. A seven year old? How brave ah?
Oh well, I suppose as long as "racially aggravated attacks" on English people are supposedly infrequent, "extrememly small" that makes it okay huh? Unbelievable! Isn't it funny that you hypocrites were whining and moaning when that big-mouthed idiot Andrew Murray got shite for some small-minded crap he uttered about England. Oh yes, you don't like it up yer! Ha! ha!

One final thing. The maritime border between England and scotland was changed in favour of scotland some years ago.

David Hume said...

I am just trying to get some sort or objectivity into this debate. The author or this article is making an assertion that the Scots are racist yet the only evidence presented is an incident in Port Seton (which is a complete dump) and some anecdote from a tartan tat shop in Edinburgh. Unless there is quantifiable data to back up these claims then the whole debate descends into an exchange of emotion and goes nowhere.

No it does not make it okay that racially aggravated crimes are infrequent. All attacks or this kind are wrong and I condemn them absolutely. That does not alter the fact that physical attacks on English people are a tiny fraction of racially aggravated crimes. I'm not sure about the wheelchair incident but yes you are right about the seven year old child. That makes three serious assaults on English people in three years. With around 400,000 English people living in Scotland that makes the probability of being seriously assaulted because you are English in one year about 0.00025%.

And what relevance does the maritime border have to this debate?

Anonymous said...

Magen Davide Hume said...
"I am just trying to get some sort or objectivity into this debate. The author or this article is making an assertion that the Scots are racist yet the only evidence presented is an incident in Port Seton (which is a complete dump) and some anecdote from a tartan tat shop in Edinburgh. Unless there is quantifiable data to back up these claims then the whole debate descends into an exchange of emotion and goes nowhere"

"Quantifiable data"? Ha! ha! The scots never need need any "data" to attack the English; (In my opinion, the scots act like the English are guilty no matter what, and despite the fact that no English person alive today was alive when all the animosity was occuring, i.e. during the wars between England and Scotland) Anyway, why should the English need any evidence to do the same? You are being hypocritical. What else is new? The English are fighting fire with fire. There does not seem to be anything wrong with this concept when the scots are employing it so why should there be anything wrong with it when the English use it?
Obviously, this all started with the battle of Brunanburh in 937. You know when the Norse, scots and Irish attacked the Angles (English) and got a right good hammering for their trouble. It has gone on from there. I really think you're wasting your time trying to make up some red herring in the scots defence. There is no defence. We are different from one another and we think and act differently. So what? In my opinion, most true English folk would not think it "funny", "hilarious", or "a real good joke jimmy" to support a team that was playing against scotland, but who cares, if you think it makes you look good that's up to you.

"No it does not make it okay that racially aggravated crimes are infrequent. All attacks or this kind are wrong and I condemn them absolutely. That does not alter the fact that physical attacks on English people are a tiny fraction of racially aggravated crimes"

Either it's wrong or it isn't wrong! You cannot say no, it isn't okay, then say...but it's only a few thereby implying that it really doesn't matter.

"I'm not sure about the wheelchair incident" Yeah, I thought you might type that. So here is the link.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/5101184.stm

"yes you are right about the seven year old child. That makes three serious assaults on English people in three years. With around 400,000 English people living in Scotland that makes the probability of being seriously assaulted because you are English in one year about 0.00025%"

Three "incidents"?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7022424.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/5139054.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/south_of_scotland/5094262.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/5063592.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/5058132.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/5116434.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/7826264.stm

http://spectator.org/archives/2006/07/21/losing-scotland

"...In Linwood, Renfrewshire, scotland two England supporters aged 19 and 36 were hospitalized after being beaten up by Scots when they toasted England's victory over Trinidad and Tobago.

When these incidents were reported in the press, readers' letters revealed many similar happenings, such as: "I am a serving soldier and I and many other English families in our area are sick of being targetted by your yobs...targetting parked cars with English flags, ripping down English flags from houses..." A former Royal Air Force man wrote: "The last time I was [in Scotland] I was openly insulted and will not return."

Leading London journalist Stephen Glover wrote: "An Englishman living in Scotland displayed the St. George's flag outside his house by way of identifying with England's World Cup team. His windows were smashed. The same man says that abuse was also hurled at him when he went to his local shop wearing an England strip....Whenever I visit Scotland, I am amazed at how self-preoccupied the country has become...I mourn for my disintegrating country. "

http://mydigest.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/gerry-rafferty-phoned-his-spokesperson-paul-charles-two-weeks-ago-reports-daily-echo-bournemouth-today-ultimate-guitar-website-says-the-great-singer-is-in-bournemouth-missing-person-stephen-hadley/

"Daily Record (the Scottish version of Daily Mirror of London) reported a Cheltenham, English lady (22) who moved to Gourdon having a night out in Aberdeen was punched by a creep who thinks of himself as a Scot, but is an ignorant asshole, as he grunted “Go back to England!”

The lady’s eye has two nerves severed and her sight is permanently degraded. The focus-control muscle is unserviceable. The traitor to Scotland who dishonoured his nation by his vile action is in his late 20s or early 30s and his fellow thug was wearing a blue shirt. CCTV is being studied."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7924480.stm



So, like I have already said, because it's "only a few" that makes it okay? That is what you're implying.
Either it is okay or it isn't okay. Which one do you think is correct. Okay or not okay? See if you can answer the question this time.

http://www.squandertwo.net/blog/2006/06/flying-off-handle.htm

"When Braveheart was released, there were more violent attacks on students in St Andrews (where I was studying at the time) in the first six weeks of term than in the entire previous year. (And there were a lot in the previous year, because Scots travel over from Dundee to St Andrews especially to beat the shit out of anyone who looks like they might be English or who answers a question in the wrong accent.) Someone staggered into the Union with blood pouring down their face pretty much every night. We all had to be very careful about walking around in public, and it was a bad idea to go out after dark."

And what relevance does the maritime border have to this debate?

"JuanKerr" wrote:
"Over the past few years westminster has allready staarted ring fencing our oil. They have partitioned 6000 miles of north sea as Englands territory and built an oil terminal and pipe line in newcastle to bypass scottish refineries should strife come"

Anonymous said...

I think I have an unusual angle on this blog in that I was born and bred in rural Scotland to English parents.

The result is that I like and love both Scottish and English people.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that there is a very strong undercurrent of anti-English sentiment in Scotland.

In fact, my perception is that there is no nationality which is disliked in Scotland more than the English.

This is not something to be proud of. In my case, I don't think that it was possible for me to develop fully as a human being in Scotland as a result.

In the end, I left Scotland (and the UK) as soon as I had finished my studies. I've never lived in my beloved Scotland again and probably never will.

Wyrdtimes said...

You've definitely touched a raw nerve WW . Methinks they protest far too much.

Which is safer?

a) Drunkenly wandering through the streets of Birmingham in a Scotland football top shouting "Scotland Scotland".

or

b) Drunkenly wandering through Glasgow in an England top shouting "England England".

I think we all know the answer - and it speaks volumes.

Luke Peters said...

What is very telling is that in England one is exposed to Scottish symbolism all the time (bumper stickers, packaging, branding) but no-one gets hated for it. Scottish accents are not victimised. Very sad certain cretinous Scots behave this way.

Dave said...

I am a proud Englishman and I respect that the Scots, Irish & Welsh peoples are also proud of their respective countries. I personally feel that nobody but an English born person should sit on an English parliament BUT I do not have anything but respect for my fellow Brits. I have experienced such discrimination by a minority of people in Scotland, Wales & Ireland. It hardens my attitude to remain true to my English roots.

Frances Coppola said...

I am English and was married to a Scot for 11 years. The first time I visited Scotland I was insulted by some of his relatives because I was English....but I have say that this only happened once. I have visited Scotland many times since, including working part-time in Edinburgh for two years, and have never been insulted or abused by Scots. I wish I could say the same for some English people, who insult me because I "talk posh".

Stephen Gash said...

I'm English not British.

Devolution has shown that fairness is an English characteristic not a British one.

The deadliest enemies of the English are the British.

Independence for England.

Anonymous said...

If you want to live in that dismal, dependent, God forbidden place then good luck.
I would rather all scrounging Scots in England be shoved back over the border and massive tolls imposed to ensure that even foot traffic was discouraged.